I have gloom and foreboding. *meep* And yet, the curvaceous lady has not yet warbled…
Looks like it’s coming down to the provisional votes in Ohio. It’s not done and dusted by any means, but odds are against Kerry getting enough margin in those to tip him over.
The increased turn-out has seen more people than ever vote for Bush. While I think they should count every vote to get the final result correct, it looks a done deal: Bush re-elected.
And so I think the next 4 years is going to be very tough. Karl Rove gets to push his agenda further ahead. Scary stuff.
America is now highly polarised and the majority favour Dubya. Well, as a country, the US can’t have any complaints when it all goes horribly wrong: they voted for him.
*sigh*
I wish it weren’t so.
But really how much difference would Kerry have made? Do you think he would have pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan? I doubt it.
And the chances of almost *all* of the provisional ballots going to Kerry are ‘implausible’ as one commentaor put it. I agree. Theres no reason to suspect provisional votes to all vote Kerry when the trend *everywhere else* is for it to be about a 50/50 split.
He needs to get about 80% or more of them to have a chance. I can’t see that happening.
I’d expect him concede defeat in the next day or two. maybe he’ll stick it out a week, but the pressure will get to be enormous.
I also agree with the commentator who said he has no moral mandate to hang on. The popular vote is 3 million in favour of Bush. It’s not like last time where the difference was a few thousand and the popular votes went to Gore by some half a million. Kerry has no mandate to fight this one out. The democrats gave up too soon last tgime, lets hope they don’t hang on too long this time. It only creates uncertainty. I’d rather know which devil I am dealing with thatn have to wait for ages to find out.
What about waiting ’till they finish counting the votes? Bush aint the winner until the votes are counted. I would be extremely pissed at Kerry if he conceeded before the vote counting has finished. As I understand it, there are questions about whether Florida is even Bush’s.
I find this lust to have an instant winner infuriating. Whoever the new president is won’t be sworn in until the New Year. So Bush will be in charge until then in any case. Of course, the answer is that Rove wants to push for a concession before the votes are actually tallied. Thus eliminating any chance of a Kerry win, and putting his man in for another 4 years. Get ahead and close the barn door double-quick.
The sensible thing is to just count the votes, make sure the totals are correct and then announce the winner. If Bush genuinely has won then a proper and thorough count will back this up.
This claim that a quick victory or concession is needed for a “graceful” contest is just hardball bullying. I think Kerry should stick to the principle of having every vote counted. Even if it is a losing effort for him, he must establish this as a noble and just right for candidates following in his footsteps.
Part of the problem is that the election officials are political, which is something we don’t have in the UK. My father was a returning officer in UK elections and really his focus was always on actually counting the votes, recounting and checking suspect ballots where necessary and not rushing to a snap judgement.
Not only must you actually do the right thing, but you must be seen to do the right thing. Democracy should be transparent.
The numbers in Florida look bad for Kerry, and the Born Agains in Ohio have block voted for Bush. But if there are up to 1/4 million votes still to be counted in Ohio then they have to count them.
Is that too much to ask?
And then she sang, that lady,
that fat lady,
she sang that final song.
Once upon a time I had faith that the American people would stick up for American values. I don’t anymore. Instead, they’ve stuck up for imperialism, torture, and a “fuck you” attitude towards the world.
Fuck ’em. Fuck ’em all. They and Osama deserve each other.
People…
Let’s put aside for a minute all our wishful thinking, and left-wing disappointment.
Is anyone genuinely suprised by this result?
As much as the rest of the world may wish it, the majority of the USA do not live in the USA of “Queer Eye”, of “South Park”, of “Farenheit 9/11”, of the politics in the new “Stepford Wives” remake. Most Americans do not listen to Ani De Franco or Michael Franti. Steve Earle sold less than 50000 copies of “Jerusalem” in the continental United States.
No, the majority of American voters live in the USA of Budweiser, of the Super Bowl, of “God Bless American”, of “Compassionate Conservatism”, of evangelical fundamentalism. The watch action films that they don’t have to think deeply about. They watch Jerry, not Oprah. They love their guns, they love their country, they love to be told what to do by a strong but simple man who says the right things about God, about gays, about “Family Values” and about defending their goddamn United States.
The current USA’s political constituency got the President they want, and the President they deserve.
And now the Left has to actually WORK to discredit and change this administration. The left is not going to be able to get away with simply saying “Hail to the Theif” and calling push the Appointed President. He won, he had the clear majority of popular support.
So what are we gonna do to change the popular perception, hmm?
That’s the issue, now…
Sorry Morgue… I really wish I’d been wrong!! Still not convinced it’d have made a concrete difference though…
P.S. I think the American people do stick up for American values… this is what happens to societies that exalt the individual over the community, assuming the individual concerned has the mony to uphold their “rights.” NZ is different now only in scale…
I don’t like it that my prediction came true, but it did, and I am not even *remotely* surprised. I really think we fail to grasp the strength of the American electorate’s beliefs. I may utterly disagree with them, but you can’t deny that they exist, nor that they will be persuaded to change their beliefs with any less effort than any of us would be persuaded to change ours.
I have to say that I am with Scott on this one, you need a policy program to unite around, something more than ‘Bush and his Haliburton cronies are villains’. Where are the ideas that will span the diversity of their country? If the Democrats are serious, and I am not holding my breath, they have to build an inclusive consensus from the ground up community by community. And this will have to include middle class white people who believe in God, guns, and a president who will protect them terrorism. At the moment, maybe as ever, left wing views in mainstream American politics are the exception not the rule.
I have gloom and foreboding. *meep* And yet, the curvaceous lady has not yet warbled…
Looks like it’s coming down to the provisional votes in Ohio. It’s not done and dusted by any means, but odds are against Kerry getting enough margin in those to tip him over.
The increased turn-out has seen more people than ever vote for Bush. While I think they should count every vote to get the final result correct, it looks a done deal: Bush re-elected.
And so I think the next 4 years is going to be very tough. Karl Rove gets to push his agenda further ahead. Scary stuff.
America is now highly polarised and the majority favour Dubya. Well, as a country, the US can’t have any complaints when it all goes horribly wrong: they voted for him.
*sigh*
I wish it weren’t so.
But really how much difference would Kerry have made? Do you think he would have pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan? I doubt it.
And the chances of almost *all* of the provisional ballots going to Kerry are ‘implausible’ as one commentaor put it. I agree. Theres no reason to suspect provisional votes to all vote Kerry when the trend *everywhere else* is for it to be about a 50/50 split.
He needs to get about 80% or more of them to have a chance. I can’t see that happening.
I’d expect him concede defeat in the next day or two. maybe he’ll stick it out a week, but the pressure will get to be enormous.
I also agree with the commentator who said he has no moral mandate to hang on. The popular vote is 3 million in favour of Bush. It’s not like last time where the difference was a few thousand and the popular votes went to Gore by some half a million. Kerry has no mandate to fight this one out. The democrats gave up too soon last tgime, lets hope they don’t hang on too long this time. It only creates uncertainty. I’d rather know which devil I am dealing with thatn have to wait for ages to find out.
What about waiting ’till they finish counting the votes? Bush aint the winner until the votes are counted. I would be extremely pissed at Kerry if he conceeded before the vote counting has finished. As I understand it, there are questions about whether Florida is even Bush’s.
I find this lust to have an instant winner infuriating. Whoever the new president is won’t be sworn in until the New Year. So Bush will be in charge until then in any case. Of course, the answer is that Rove wants to push for a concession before the votes are actually tallied. Thus eliminating any chance of a Kerry win, and putting his man in for another 4 years. Get ahead and close the barn door double-quick.
The sensible thing is to just count the votes, make sure the totals are correct and then announce the winner. If Bush genuinely has won then a proper and thorough count will back this up.
This claim that a quick victory or concession is needed for a “graceful” contest is just hardball bullying. I think Kerry should stick to the principle of having every vote counted. Even if it is a losing effort for him, he must establish this as a noble and just right for candidates following in his footsteps.
Part of the problem is that the election officials are political, which is something we don’t have in the UK. My father was a returning officer in UK elections and really his focus was always on actually counting the votes, recounting and checking suspect ballots where necessary and not rushing to a snap judgement.
Not only must you actually do the right thing, but you must be seen to do the right thing. Democracy should be transparent.
The numbers in Florida look bad for Kerry, and the Born Agains in Ohio have block voted for Bush. But if there are up to 1/4 million votes still to be counted in Ohio then they have to count them.
Is that too much to ask?
And then she sang, that lady,
that fat lady,
she sang that final song.
Once upon a time I had faith that the American people would stick up for American values. I don’t anymore. Instead, they’ve stuck up for imperialism, torture, and a “fuck you” attitude towards the world.
Fuck ’em. Fuck ’em all. They and Osama deserve each other.
People…
Let’s put aside for a minute all our wishful thinking, and left-wing disappointment.
Is anyone genuinely suprised by this result?
As much as the rest of the world may wish it, the majority of the USA do not live in the USA of “Queer Eye”, of “South Park”, of “Farenheit 9/11”, of the politics in the new “Stepford Wives” remake. Most Americans do not listen to Ani De Franco or Michael Franti. Steve Earle sold less than 50000 copies of “Jerusalem” in the continental United States.
No, the majority of American voters live in the USA of Budweiser, of the Super Bowl, of “God Bless American”, of “Compassionate Conservatism”, of evangelical fundamentalism. The watch action films that they don’t have to think deeply about. They watch Jerry, not Oprah. They love their guns, they love their country, they love to be told what to do by a strong but simple man who says the right things about God, about gays, about “Family Values” and about defending their goddamn United States.
The current USA’s political constituency got the President they want, and the President they deserve.
And now the Left has to actually WORK to discredit and change this administration. The left is not going to be able to get away with simply saying “Hail to the Theif” and calling push the Appointed President. He won, he had the clear majority of popular support.
So what are we gonna do to change the popular perception, hmm?
That’s the issue, now…
Sorry Morgue… I really wish I’d been wrong!! Still not convinced it’d have made a concrete difference though…
P.S. I think the American people do stick up for American values… this is what happens to societies that exalt the individual over the community, assuming the individual concerned has the mony to uphold their “rights.” NZ is different now only in scale…
I don’t like it that my prediction came true, but it did, and I am not even *remotely* surprised. I really think we fail to grasp the strength of the American electorate’s beliefs. I may utterly disagree with them, but you can’t deny that they exist, nor that they will be persuaded to change their beliefs with any less effort than any of us would be persuaded to change ours.
I have to say that I am with Scott on this one, you need a policy program to unite around, something more than ‘Bush and his Haliburton cronies are villains’. Where are the ideas that will span the diversity of their country? If the Democrats are serious, and I am not holding my breath, they have to build an inclusive consensus from the ground up community by community. And this will have to include middle class white people who believe in God, guns, and a president who will protect them terrorism. At the moment, maybe as ever, left wing views in mainstream American politics are the exception not the rule.