(I remember where I was when I heard.)
There is no economy of tragedy. My brain rebels when I try and compare this disaster with that, one horrible event with another. 9/11 seems entirely of a piece with countless other terrible atrocities that have been visited upon innocents.
In terms of its impact, however, the felling of the WTC towers was a singular event. This was our cultural world despoiled. Nothing else in my lifetime comes remotely close. Perhaps the Blitz of London is the nearest referent I can imagine.
It casts a long shadow.
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Here in NZ, TVNZ screened last night ‘Path to 9/11’ part one and will follow tonight with part two. David McPhail, in his newspaper column last weekend, said we should all record it and keep it forever. If you’re watching it, be aware of the massive controversy over its content; at the very least, it is not as factual as it claims, and at most, it’s an outright distortion of history justifying a very right-wing mythology.
Wikipedia has a good overview.
28 thoughts on “Spare Thoughts”
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Did you read Max Blumenthal’s dissection of “The Path to 9/11″‘s heritage? It’s a HuPo blog post, but worth a read nonetheless.
Here is the URL. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/discover-the-secret-right_b_29015.html
“Perhaps the Blitz of London is the nearest referent I can imagine.”
The ramifications of 9/11 were and are big. However, an estimated 140,000 people were killed as a direct result of the bombing og Hiroshima, and an estimated 80,000 from the bombing of Nagasaki. The legacy of both of these attacks continues to this day – more than sixty years on.
Did you observe Hiroshima Day? I commented at the time that no one seemed to care. I saw a parade. There were FOUR PEOPLE in it – three of whom were a brass band.
Yes, 9/11 casts a long shadow – right now, five years on. In five more years, who knows?
Yes, nothing in our lifetime quite equals 9/11 in terms of impact – but we are very young, and things of greater import have happened within others’ living memory.
Let’s not romanticize this just because it happened while we were there to see it.
Morgue, I assume you are talking about the impact of terrorism where you refer to impact on the world. Otherwise I would argue that the end of the cold war was close to equal or had an even greater impact on the world. We are still living with and trying to sort out the flow-on effects of the end of the cold war some 16 years after it ended. While airport security makes a part of my life a living hassle and constantly hearing about terrorism and the evils of Islamic culture is rubbing my nerves raw, travelling through central and Eastern Europe as well as Russia, and seeing Germany still trying to overcome the financial impact of the integration of East Germany as well as the EU’s endeavours to make sense of where Europe is now, was and continues to be just massive in its impact. I accept that the paradigm which we suffer under took a new turn five years ago, but once the people and media finally get sick of hearing the t word, and it stops serving the current adminstration’s purposes, aren’t we going to get back on with our lives…or aren’t we doing that now more or less already?
Pearce, KiZ – You’re misinterpreting me. Or I haven’t expressed myself well enough. I mean precisely what I say, that its impact was singular because it “despoiled our cultural world”. Hiroshima don’t do that, that was off in Japan somewhere. The Holocaust didn’t do that, that was behind enemy lines in the great Good vs Evil war. The fall of the Berlin wall comes close in terms of its impact on our cultural world – but that was a positive event, not a negative one.
I’m speaking entirely in terms of the irrational logic of symbols. This was the opening credits of Mad About You and the trailer for Spider-Man that was attacked. The only thing I can think of that affected a cultural world I think of as my own is the Blitz – London and New York are equally iconic places.
There, maybe that’s it – I should have phrased it “In terms of its symbolic impact…”
At the risk of introducing cynicism, Hiroshima and Nagasaki did more for world peace than any protest march ever did. It had to happen somewhere, they just happened to be the wrong cities in the wrong place at the wrong time.
More people were killed in the firebombing of Tokyo in March 1945 than at Hiroshima, and the Japanese killed more than both combined in Nanking in 1937 but there aren’t any commemorative days for those. I suspect the dead couldn’t care less.
Morgue: Absolute tosh! Hiroshima & Nagasaki didn’t just happen “off in Japan somewhere” – the impact of it was felt massively across the entire world culture. They are huge, HUGE symbols in and of themselves.
Think: Duck & Cover; Godzilla; The Day After; the Cold War in general (the “send a message to Joe Stalin” aspect of dropping the bomb); the post-apocalypse genre; Nuclear Free New Zealand; I could go on and on.
The threat of nuclear war traumatised several generations, particularly in the ’50s, ’60s and ’80s. It was all over the popular culture world wide. If these weapons had never been tested on living cities full of human people, do you think the impact would have been 1/100th as great? Like hell it would.
The trailer for Spider-Man and the credits for Mad About You? Oh fiddle-dee-dee. Why not go back and watch the MOVIE Spider-Man. Woah check it out – there’s the WTC, still standing. Why did they change the trailer? It was apparently Sam Raimi’s call, and he says he felt it would be insensitive to the families of the dead. WOW WHAT MASSIVE CULTURAL IMPACT!
And if you want to talk about despoiling our cultural world – let’s talk about the Vietnam War, shall we? A tiny little skirmish compared to other 20th Century wars, but its symbolic value was immense for various reasons, the chief one being that it was the first televised war, the first time non-combat-arena civilians got to see the realities of the situation.
As for the Holocaust not despoiling our cultural landscape to the same degree – think about how every time someone wants to use the word “Holocaust” to describe anything other than the Nazi one, they get the equivalent of a piano dropped on them. Even here – even Turiana Turia.
I still call romanticism. 9/11 is not singular, either symbolically or realistically. I am sick and fucking tired of all this “the day the world changed” crap. The world changes every day, and every few years it’s a massive change. 9/11 was one of many. Like I said: wait another five years, then we’ll see.
You want to know why we need to commemorate Hiroshima Day? Because a brain-dead frat-boy in the Whitehouse is threatening to do it AGAIN. He’s already sounded out the public arena on the possibility of nuking Iran.
Sorry to be grumpy, but I’m sick of all the chest-thumping about 9/11 from all quarters. If it was significant, it’s mostly because it gave certain people an excuse to do more of what they were already doing.
Oh yeah: Hiroshima and Nagasaki were symbolically important along with Dresden and the Blitz for one more simple reason: they opened up the war field to include every civilian. War was from then on no longer about two armies fighting. Everyone could be killed – not just anyone, EVERYONE.
Pearce, there’s still a communication problem, because you’re completely misunderstanding me.
Let me try again: the felling of the WTC towers comprised the destruction of something that felt like it was “mine”. Something familiar from lots of pop culture (which is what I was getting at with the pop culture references – referencing the process by which they feel mine), something that resonated with cultural familiarity and ownership.
The impact of all the other things we talk about was obviously huge, but (and I’m projecting back through time) it didn’t impact on anything that Joe Kiwi would think of as “his”. In my lifetime I can’t think of anything else that affected something I think of as culturally “mine”.
I’m being very specific in what I’m talking about here, what I phrased as “our cultural world despoiled”.
“If it was significant, it’s mostly because it gave certain people an excuse to do more of what they were already doing.”
Of course it was significant. It was only able to provide this excuse because it was significant. I’m trying to express the way it was significant – in how it disrupted a selfish, personal view of ‘what I feel to be mine’.
And this is precisely what was sought by the culprits. They targeted WTC because they knew it would have this effect.
Being aware how irrational this effect is does not prevent its existence.
So… What you’re actually saying is that 9/11 is “a singular event”, “our cultural world despoiled”, and that “[n]othing else in [your] lifetime comes remotely close” because… it resonated with you personally?
That’s pretty goddamned specific. Especially when you realise that “despoiled” means “robbed and destroyed by force and violence”.
If you really want something that impacted at least as deeply on what ‘Joe Kiwi would think of as “his”‘ as 9/11, you only have to go back 25 years, to the Springbok Tour riots. Do you remember? I’m from a rugby family (like every typical Joe Kiwi) and I can’t help but remember it even though I was only six.
“So… What you’re actually saying is that 9/11 is “a singular event”, “our cultural world despoiled”, and that “[n]othing else in [your] lifetime comes remotely close” because… it resonated with you personally?”
Not even close. I’m gonna let this be, for a while at least, because I’m plainly not expressing what I want to express at all.
Regardless of what you mean, your insistence on
saying our “cultural world was despoiled” is troubling – it’s hyperbole at best. Despoiled literally means “robbed and destroyed by force or violence,” as I’ve said, and this is clearly not the case.
Nope, that’s exactly what I mean, literally, and I maintain it is absolutely the case. The choice of ‘despoiled’ was very carefully made. I suggest what I mean by “cultural world” is the problem in our misunderstanding, and I haven’t been able to express it well enough thus far.
Woah. So you HAVE gone crazy. 😉
In fairness to Morgue, the reason why I went for the Cold War and not one of the other attrocities we have visited upon ourselves, is that he does state ‘within his lifetime’. And my lifetime is only three days longer than his, so I don’t think nuclear bombs in the second world war come within that gambit and, as such, I respect Morgue’s placing the Twin Towers above the nuclear bomb. (I’ll take the reference to the Blitz of London to be an error). If we had lived through the second world war and the resulting cold war, I expect that the effect on every aspect of our world, cultural, social, political etc etc would have been significantly greater than the Twin Towers. The tangible effects of the second world war are something that we are still dealing with today and if two events, the dropping of the bombs or the raising of the Berlin wall can, in their own right encapsulate the essence and ‘long shadow’ of the war(s) then I think it is entirely premature to place the twin towers ahead of them.
I do disupute, however, the use of ‘our’ cultural world. The twin towers might in someway have symbolised Morgue’s cultural world (I have to admit that disturbs me), but they did nothing of the sort for me…not beyond symbolising the capitalistic world I am a part of, but given Morgue’s pop culture references, I suspect he wasn’t coming at it from the capitalistic angle. What is insufferable about the whole thing is that an entire administration’s foreign policy and much of the internal policy draws its ‘validity’ from this act of terrorism. The world doesn’t feel like a safer place today than it did before, and given the inordinate amount of travelling I do, that is of some significant concern to me, but to place it as the most significant event? I’m really not sure…
But, then, I was never in love with New York either.
It was specifically because Morgue referenced the Blitz that I played the nuke card. I took him as saying “this is the biggest event of our lifetime, and prior to my lifetime the only thing I can imagine that’s bigger is the Blitz.”
I’m gonna leave it there until Morgue comes up with some sort of definition of “our cultural world” – because he’s already implied that he didn’t mean world culture overall, and I’m damned if I can work out what he DOES mean. (Unless it’s comic books or something. 😉
Yeh, I preferred to ignore the blitz reference, otherwise I’m pretty confused as well.
Small point, but while the Vietnam war may have been the first televised war, the reality as presented on television was often quite different to what was actually happening.
I think personal choices in the Western world still play a bigger part in the determination of your life expectancy. I’m talking heart disease, car accidents, cancer causing habbits like smoking, diet and stress. The amortised cost of life caused by terrorism in the US is far outweighed by personal choice factors.
Combined with the cause and effect aspect of the terrorism, with the terrorism being the effect, it is hard for me to get excited about the whole thing.
Trivia: less people died in 9/11 than die of smoking-related illnesses in the US every month.
How ’bout a War On Tobacco? Oh wait… Might need those campaign donations. 😉
Ok, I saw what Morge was getting at though my first gut instinct was to say “wait a second”. When I reread the line I understood. Its very singular. Its the destruction of a cultural icon in the pop world sense. I think it could also be a loose comment on the use of our cultural world to destroy itself. The use of television as an effect to pummel you about an event that the governments of the time wants to use to justify its own atrocities.
But I am with Pearce here. God dam I am sick and tired of the whole thing. Television news coverage has a lot to answer for, a little one sided me thinks. I feel abused by the media. I feel (not think here guys just gut) that people are looking at the wrong thing and using it as an excuse to not dig any deeper.
In reading over Morgue’s post and the ensuing comments, it seems that there has been some confusion over an assumed value judgement apparently implicit in the initial post.
In acknowledging the distress the attacks have caused to many around the world as an event in itself, as well as those subsequent events that are clearly linked with the attacks of September 11th, together with M’s comparing these attacks to the London Blitz, it seems that some of you have inferred that Morgue believed that this was because the event itself was intrinsically more significant than other epochal acts of cultural significance.
I wonder how many of us would have felt the need to argue otherwise if it wasn’t something that, as some of you have pointed out, is so consistently asserted in the media. It seems this in itself goes some way to supporting Morgue’s initial statement, if not the inference: that is, whether or not this is the way it should be.
Yeah, part of my rage was simply that I assumed Morgue was buying into the “This is the biggest thing ever!” hype.
9/11 is yet another victim of America’s blockbuster mentality.
The movie Batman was the biggest let-down of all time, not because it was a bad movie, but because the *media* told me it would be awesome.
Damn that evil media, providing me with entertainment and spoiling it at the same time ;P
I have little to add here, except that I too am curious about how recent events will be viewed in 5 or 10 years’ time – will those who have been polarised by media coverage come closer as we hear less about 9/11?
I like the phrase ‘blockbuster mentality’.
I think there’s a lot in here to cogitate over. I think I can infer clearly what Morgue was saying in his original post, but would do an even worse job of expressing it myself.
Morgue states:
‘In terms of its impact, however, the felling of the WTC towers was a singular event.’ I take that sentence in the context of the next sentences:
‘This was our cultural world despoiled. Nothing else in my lifetime comes remotely close. Perhaps the Blitz of London is the nearest referent I can imagine.’
There are many singular events…all events in their own right, but what Morgue seems to be saying here is that this event outstrips (‘nothing comes remotely close’) all other events in terms of its despoiling effect on our cultural world. (Once again I’ll ignore the reference to the blitz).
And with that comment I take issue. I’m not sure how the twin towers were supposed to epitomise or represent our cultural world, beyond their occasional movie appearance. They were iconic in terms of New York, but New York hardly seems to be representative of our cultural world, except to the extent that we are children of capitalism.
Perhaps Morgue is getting at the un-nerving nature of a terrorist attack on US soil within our lifetimes. Which I think merits some analysis in terms of having awoken a relativly sleepy dragon, but to credit it with being the singular event that outstrips all others in terms of its affect on our cultural world, seems to me to be buying into the media and political manipulation of an incredibly tragic event.
In retrospect, I think it’s pretty amusing how deeply we’ve deconstructed Morgue’s post: more than 3,000 words to explicate less than 200.
Hey i was in london for the bombigs of the tube. Remember that the tubes in the city are the oldest in the world. Ok only 53 people died compared to the towers but it didnt have the same effect. Why? It still had world wide coverage and all. I think its imigary was underground. No one lost their innocience cause hey London has had that shit for 30 odd years. IRA anyone? everyone walked home and went to the pub. I think that the constant picture of the towers collasping makes it special. It made us not feel safe in our captials havens.
I had done that in word and all to clean up the grammer and spelling and forgot to copy it over. so here is a more clear picture before i get cyber linched
“If you want something other than the blitz? I was in London for the bombings of the tube. Remember that the tubes in the city are the oldest in the world. Ok only 53 people died compared to the towers but it didn’t have the same effect. Why? It still had world wide coverage and all. I think its imagery was underground. No one lost their innocence because hey London has had that shit for 30 odd years. IRA anyone? Everyone walked home and went to the pub. It was the British way. I think that the constant picture of the towers collapsing makes it special. We lost the safety of our capitalist havens.”